How to help 2 dogs to get on together

[Claire]

I have two Bichons .. one male 5 1/2 adopted at three months. And I have a female, adopted from Small Paws when she was 4 1/2 from Small Paws. She is now 9. My sweet daughter has a 4 year old female Lab. Ergo.. a very young family, military, had to go to Japan this passed week. They have an adorable 8 month mixed bordor collie w/?. Major has always been in a one bedroom apartment with the wife for the last 4 months. He has basic training, crate trained, loving and wonderful personality. But he's a puppy that has not had enough exercise nor has he had any socializing around other animals or people. I'm a senior, mildly disabled, but I am a little into rescue and said I would take Major while we figure out what to do. Since the original family that was to take him (best friends.. right).. he was wonderul, but totally wild and exerburand, loved the fenced in back yard and wanted to play totally with my 5 1/2 year old who is built guite low to the ground. Tatter would try, but Major was just to much puppy for him and bigger them and it wasn't working. Totally not working. I had already fallen ing love with this little man, but knew no way would he be happy here with the turmoil.

My daughter and my grand daughter (who was friends with the owners) then decided that they could take him. Well, same problem. Only reverse this time. Their Lab, Bella, wanted to just tottily remove his head. Major wantede to play so bad, but Bella would let him up to a point by throwing her ball to him and when Major would response, then the attack would start. More Major was actually peeing on my daughters bed. But Major has already attached himself to our entire family. My daughter has been crying because there is no way he is going to the shelter, I'm crying for the same reason. We do not know how to socialize this 8 month old puppy along with this 4 year old Lab, nor with my older and first in charge Bichon. We are just beside ourselves. Anything that anyone can offer to help us would be so greatly appreciated. This little man loves riding in my daughters SUV, she takes him to the beach just as she take her Bella. I was able to play with him in the back yard and was able to see the love and enthusiam this little man has... I do live near a great boarding and grooming place. They also have puppy day care and regular day care. I don't know if I should let him go to puppy day care to learn to socialize and get his enthusiastic excitement outlet but that doesn't help any of us with the situation in my daughter's home with Bella.

Please, can anyone help us find a way to keep this little man? I know if we found the right home for him, it would probably be better, but he has just gotten attached to us as we have to him.

[Stephanie]

Hi there, sorry I am really confused reading this - please can you explain what is going on with each dog and Major - Major is the collie x right? Also, is the lab living with you or somewhere else? Is it just the 2 bichons that live with you? What is the problem between the 2 bichons and Major? & what exactly is the problem between Bella the lab and Major? If you can give more details of what is going on between the dogs, it will help us to understand what exactly the problems are.

[Claire]

sorry... I have two Bichons... live with me. Tatter, 5 1/2 is the youngest, Junie, 9 is obviously the oldest. I have had Tatter since three months old so he is pretty much the "alpha".. Junie is just my sweet heart and my shadow. When I wanted to keep Major, the 8 month old, Tatter was making it extremely difficult. Major has not been with any other dogs. He was with his Humans up until they had to transfer to Japan and not able to go with them. The friends that were to take him decided at the last minute they couldn't. I offered to help keep him until we could find him a great home. He's extremely energentic due to very little exercise other then walks. He has only been in an apartment. So when I got him here it was like heaven. A yard plus company. But I could not keep Tatter from wanting to fight with him plus try to contain Major somewhat from jumping. So second part... my daughter - elsewhere, has a 4 year old lab . Bella. She took Major and again, this poor little guy is just being threatening by Bella now. We do not know how to integrate our dogs with this beautiful and loving and extremely hyper leggy puppy. For some reason, Bella, the lab, is even worse with this little then my mine is. Shawn wants to keep Major. She absolutely loves him and he is so easy to love. But we need information and help with getting Bella to accept him. No sense worrying about my two as he will not be staying here. Major thinks when Bella is being nasty, she's wanting to play.. So Major will stop hoping and dodging and then Bella will just go after her with full teeth. But when Shawn has Major and is keeping them apart, then Bella will throw the ball to him to play. Major thinks great, and then Bella dives at him. What to do....... They are both wonderfully good dogs. I believe that both my male and Shawn's lab are just being totally terriorial and until Shawn can figure out how to work with that, she's stuck. Does this make better sense.

[Stephanie]

OK, I think I go the story - Major the collie x is going to live with your daughter and her 4 year old lab, Bella. Major is behaving like a typical puppy and wants Bella to play with him the whole time. Because Major hasn't been mixed with other dogs, he cannot read Bella's signals and doesn't understand that when Bella shows her teeth or dives at him, that this isn't play - it's Bella telling Major to get lost. Is that about right?

[Claire]

yes, and, of course, Bella is making very sure that Major knows that she calls the shots and she's the big cheese in her terriority. And Bella has no concept what that means. So how we can help these two, who I feel with Bella's love of play with other dogs outside of her home, finally become buddies.

Thank you

[Stephanie]

Sometimes it takes a little time for 2 dogs to settle down with each other and for them to get to know each other and to learn what is acceptable and what isn't. I have 3 dogs here with a year or 2 between getting each one, each time there has been a period of readjustment while the dog settles in and finds its feet. Sometimes it is just a case of giving them time.

I do think that Major needs far more experiances with other dogs. He also needs both regular mental and physical exercise. How often is your daughter going to taking walk him? Will he ever get to run off-lead? Collies [and their crosses] are very intelligent dogs and have a very high desire to work - maybe part of the reason he bugs Bella so much is because he has no other outlet to satisfy these needs? Much as I understand you and your daughters family love him, are they able to put in the training with him? take him to classes - agility maybe - obediance, etc - collies relish and excel at these activities......and are such great dogs to work with.

[Claire]

Shawn has a huge yard, but unfenced. But this little guy is so affectionate that while he loves tearing around the yard and exploring, the minute she calls him; he's right there. I want to take him maybe two days a wekk to Noah''s Ark where I take my Bichons for grooming, boarding, etc. They have doggy day care for people who work and each dog gets his own really decent size indoor kennel, it also has access to the outside private run. Plus at least twice a day they are in separate groups in separate areas for open space play with other dogs in their "comfort" range. For example, there is one dog that is big, but is terrorized in his own group, so he actually goes in with the younger group where he seems to fit in more. So it's a very well organized place. I want to start that next week for even one day if that's all I can afford. Do you think this would help him as much as he needs until he and Bella can get along to the point they can entertain each other safely? Thank you

[Stephanie]

I think it will help a little, but because he has had so few dog-to-dog experiances to fall back on, someone needs to be getting him out every single day to meet and mix with dogs - all types of dogs too - not just dogs his age/size, dogs of all sizes, colours, ages and breeds etc. At the moment, Major's experiances are pretty negative if Bella is constantly telling him to bug off, he needs many positive interactions too as well as lots of mental stimulation - training, etc.

[Bill]

I'm not sure you really have the problem you think you do. You haven't mentioned blood at all. I suspect Major is just an exuberant puppy doing normal exuberant puppy play. Puppy play or even dog play can look real ferocous to people not used to seeing it. There is a lot of growling and biting. Biting of legs, tails, ears, snouts, or anyother thing they can get in their mouths. As long as one dog doesn't run off yelping, I would let them play. A little blood is not unusual. I remember when I got my Great Dane, Thor when he was 12 weeks old. He would entice Abby (5yo Dane at the time) to chase him through the pasture. She would catch him, pick him up in her mouth, throw him several feet then pounce on him. She would grab him by the neck or throat and hold him a few minutes. All the time she was growling ferociously. After she held him a few minutes she would let him up. He would jump up and look at her with is body language saying, "Hey! That was fun!!! Let's do it again!". Then he would entice her to chase him again. She would catch him, knock him down and the whole process would start over again. Eventually over several years it got to the point Abby coudln't catch him so he would slow down so she could. Or he would run in a big circle so she could cut through the circle and get to him. It was obvious he wanted her to catch him. Sometimes he would chase her but once he caught her, he would run past her so now she is chasing him. It was great fun and great exercise for both dogs. Visitors would think they were killng each other but neither one ever got hurt.

At one time I had two goldens. Every evening about 7 or 7:30 pm they would decide one of them would decide it was time to wrestle. So they would get in a "fight" for about 5 minutes or so. Again, visitors would think they were killing each other. Sometimes they would get a pull rope and pull in opposite directions and even that sounded like they wanted to kill each other.

In both cases both Abby and Thor and Skylar and Zack (the Goldens) were best buds just having fun. With an exuberant puppy, I think thats what Major wants to do. I suggest you leave them alone and see what happens. You might be surprised that they go at it a few minutes then stop. I remember with Skylar and Zack, it always looked like a real dog fight. After a few minutes, they would stop, look at each other, shake all over as wet dogs do, turn around and walk away from each other. A few minutes later they would be lying beside each other taking a nap.

Back in my dog training days, I would often get calls from people who sounded exactly like you do and when I would visit their home, I would see puppy play even if neither was actually a puppy. They could call me terrified that one of the dogs was going to kill the other and neither dog had any such intention.

[Claire]

Bill and Step, thank you both. I realize in my brain that the two of you are correct. My heart jkust goes out to this little man whose Humans have had to leave him. I am forwarding the e-mail to my daughter and we are both going to sort through this and do a quiet watch and sit and see as Bella and Major try to work out their personalities and in Major's case, let him develope a personality. And Bill, pertaining to the the quote - Milan Kundera, all I can add to that is God never made an ugly animal or an ugly human. It was pretty much done on their own with help from someone else. But in my heart of hearts, animals deserve to be treated with love, kindness, strength and respect and you will always get the same back with a huge dose of devotion. with thanks,
Claire