Dog behaviourists

[bellasmum]

Hi, I would be grateful for any comments.I have been a member for a while now and have posted and received much help here re. my Beardie cross Buddy.He is now 9 months old. He is proving very difficult to train, even though we have had dogs successfully trained for years. So much so that we called on the services of a "behaviourist" We were doing the ignore bad behaviour thing and since the consultation have stepped this up.However the reason I am asking is, that we were told during the consultation that Buddy sees himself as leader and is very stressed as he doesnt want to be alpha. Until he reliquishes the alpha position we were advised NOT to take him out.To walk him up and down in the house and garden until he is locked on to whoever has the leash. This has been three weeks and BOY is Buddy bored!! Also I know that he is inclined to be dominant over me s he has begun to tuck one leg over mine when I am walking.Has anyone kept their dog in at this stage of their lives.I am inclined to think that he should go out a carry on with the isolating at home when he misbehaves, but should we can complete respect before he goes out on the leash???replies gratefully received.

[Bill]

Forget the "alpha" thing. That is an outdated concept that has been thoroughly debunked many times in recent years. What your dog is looking for and it is similar to your alpha concept is that he is looking for someone to show him how to live life in a human world. He needs a mentor, a teacher, and a guide through life. He does not need nor is he looking for is a boss. He is acting like he is acting because he has never been taught, in a way he can understand, what is expected of him and how he is to act. Take him out to walk anytime you wish. When he doesn't act as he should, stop and show him the correct way to act. A big mistake most people make is that they are very ready to show a dog when he is doing wrong but they stop there and never show him the right way to do something or show him what is expected of him. For instance ... when he pulls on the leash, just stop walking and stand there until he comes back and stands or sits beside you. No need to say anything or do anything else. Just stop walking and wait. This means its going to take a long time to get anywhere in the beginning. You may not even get to the end of your driveway.

A dog can't learn anything when he is out of control excited. When he gets this way, remove him from the situation until he calms down. Always show him what is expected of him and when he catches on, he will act that way.

[bellasmum]

Thanks Bill, I was waiting to hear from you.It is the same concept isnt it.Do you agree with the "stress" assessment? I keep wondering if he is bored or stressed .The theory was that because our leadership isnt strong enough Buddy thinks he is ruling us and he wants strong ledership to know where the bounderies are. i.e. as his mother would show him. Also what he jumps up at lead when we stand still and growls and can nip hands.. and what do you think of his winding his leg around mine? he doesnt do it ti my husband. thanking you SO much.

[Bill]

Don't worry so much about what is causing his problem. He needs someone to step up, take charge and teach him what is expected of him. I am not concerned about specific behaviors as they will disappear once he has someone to teach him what he needs to know. Someone must stepup and take charge.

[McMegan]

Well, I'll throw my two cents out there just for fun. I probably won't say anything you don't already know, especially if you've had dogs before Mr. Buddy!

I'm going to interpret the "leadership"/"parenting" vs. "dominance" issue as a question of semantics. Sounds like everyone is really in agreement about the basic issue: like all young kids (and furkids), Buddy needs boundries and discipline from his "parents." That word "discipline" can be an easily misunderstood word with definite negative conotations, since it is unfortunately often achieved through punishment, but we wouldn't realistically raise our own children without a clear set of expectations and consequences and no dog or wolf would raise her pups without the same. Like Bill said, the concept of dominance is a bit off the mark. Turid Rugaas writes beautifully about the filial love and devotion that truly rules the pack - I prefer her explanation.

I was really surprised to read that your behaviourist suggested less exercise. Especially given Buddy's mix of breeds, that seems very counterintuitive. Grossly generalizing here, he comes from a working background and is bred to be extremely smart and speedy. Could be that he's looking for sufficient outlets for his great mental and physical energy. Simply walking (even outside the house) might not even be enough - how about biking with him, or getting involved in some agility training, or even sheep herding (not sure where you are located but there may be a club)? Even if there are no formal agility courses near you, there are TONS of online resources and literature to get you started on a DIY version in your own backyard! Sounds like he is a really clever guy (having read back through some of your previous forum posts) so he'd probably love the challenge.

Regarding the walks, once some of his built-up energy is drained, you may find that the pulling, jumping and biting at the leash lessen. Also as Bill said, you can help him drain energy and learn self control (which all puppies need to learn) by establishing calming rituals before, during and after the walks - this could look like sitting to have his leash put on rather than jumping or pacing, sitting at the door to wait to be invited on the walk rather than charging out to meet the world, and sitting patiently after returning home to be invited into the house and rewarded with a big drink of water. All these little rituals will help him to focus on the task of walking/jogging purposefully (this turns the walk into mental exercise as well as physical) and a more focused dog is much more biddable.

Best of luck - let us know how your work with Buddy is progressing!

[bellasmum]

Thankyou both for your replies, which I really appreciate.Yes we have been taking Buddy out as this felt right to us for Buddy. The terms aipha and leader mean much the same really dont they. He is a much more contented dog now that he can run and let off steam.The behaviourist said that his breed makes no difference, she has worked with wolves , but to see Buddy just run for the joy of it is heartwarming.My husband is convinced that by keeping Buddy in for 4 weeks it has caused another problem.Despite calling him frequently during the run for a treat successfully, Bud just will NOT come when called, he runs up yo my husband and runs away again.My husband is interested to know what he can do to help this situation.This morning Buddy ran away , countless times, stood in a stream and looked really unsure and firghtened. Although he has not been chastised for not coming to call, he maybe sensed that after 8 times my husband was becoming stressed.We have tried walking away, which worked before his grounded period, but that doesnt work now!

[McMegan]

Dogs love to play "chase" so it sounds like some of the time, especially if he is off the leash and letting off steam by running about, he might just be trying to get your husband to play with him. Walking or running away from him may help bring him back to you since dogs automatically follow moving things, but he might just dart away again to continue the "game." He may also be confused about what you are asking for. Your husband could try hunkering or even sitting down on the ground, turning his body to the side, and/or leaning away from Buddy. Also calling him in a super-happy, friendly and encouraging tone. Dogs are VERY sensitive to aural and visual, body-language cues, much more so than they are to an understanding of spoken language, so even if your words say "Buddy, come here right now!" your body and tone of voice could be loudly telling him to stay away. Every time he does move toward you, reward with encouraging words ("good boy, buddy! come on, you can do it, pal!") and yummy treats and a super-good, extra-yummy treat when he actually makes it all the way to you. As hard as it might be as you get more frustrated, stressed and excited, try to avoid repeating the command over and over, "Come! Come! Come!" because it will end up teaching him to ignore the first few times. Unlike humans, dogs don't hear "come" and "come come come" as the same thing, nor do they understand synonyms; "Come" and "come here" are two different sounds to a dog, so try to be consistent in the command you are using so that he doesn't get confused about what you really want. If you have called him once in a happy voice while leaning away and softening your eye contact and assuming there is not a cat, squirrel, cow patty, or other fascinating and wonderful reward to warrent his ignoring you, CALMLY walk over to him, keeping your face turned away from him, and collect him. Do not run, move slowly, and if he starts to dance away from you, curve your path outwards away from him so that you sort of circle towards him (this approach is less threatening than walking directly towards him and less likely to cause a nervous dog to bolt). Let him know by your calm but cool demeanor that this is not the time for games. You're absolutely correct in not chastising him - unfortunately dogs don't speak English and he may be unsure about what it is you're really asking him to do (particularly if he is somehow picking up conflicting cues), so just make sure you follow through by showing him what behaviour you DO want.

I'm not sure if this is the "correct" way to do it, but I trained my more-than-a-little-independant labrador that the command "come" means "run to Megan, touch her outstretched fist with my nose, and get an amazing treat!" At first we did this on a short leash. I made sure he saw me hold a treat in my hand, and while hunkered down I stretched my fist close to him. Once he got the hang of touching my hand for a treat, I added the "come" word and we started working on longer distances. Now if he's anywhere in the house or yard, I can call "Murray, come!" in a sing-song voice and he'll come charging inside for a treat (he always gets one). On our walks, I'll intermittently allow him to roam and sniff and call him back before he gets out of the short range in which I can easily block his progress (either via leash or body). Now he (usually) stops in his tracks when I call "Murray, come!" and trots back to me for a treat and further instructions ("go sniff"/release-to-roam or "heel"/focus-on-Megan).

In controlled environments (dog park, fenced neighborhood park, and areas of our walk where I can keep him safe and direct his movements), I will let Murr off the leash, release him to roam, then get his attention and run excitedly away from him while calling him to come. We run until he catches me (or until I stop and let him "catch" me) and then he gets a big treat, so even though these basically sound like silly games, he has learned that keeping an eye on me and following after me when I move tends to bring big rewards. If Buddy isn't strongly food-motivated, a favorite squeaky toy or ball could also be used as a reward. During these times, I do NOT chase Murray as I don't want him to associate following me and/or the word "come" with running away from me whenever he wants. If he ran from me after being given a "come" command, I would do as you said and sit down with my back to him (keeping one eye on him) or move in the other direction and if he tried to tackle or nip me to "catch" me, the game would end with no treat and with me coldly walking away from him.

Now, in the context of playing, since I mentioned that it sounds like Buddy could be trying to get your husband to join in a game, when we are playing I do chase Murr around (usually not in the middle of our walks) and I keep the word "come" out of my vocabulary since these are two very different concepts (play and obedience). In fact, some of what I have read suggests for safety reasons that you only chase your dog and do not allow him to chase you, and that the game of chase only be played in a controlled environment where you start and stop the fun. I definitely agree with the wisdom in that, particularly the latter. Although Murray is allowed to chase me (simply because I know both myself and his personality and nature well enough to feel safe in allowing this), I am always the one who initiates and ends the game, and it ends IMMEDIATELY if I feel that he is getting too excited or losing the ability to focus on me.

It sounds like it might be a good idea to keep Buddy leashed for the entirety of his walks, for now. Off-leash running could be reserved for times when you have a little more control over how far from you he can roam, such as at the dog park or other enclosed area. If he needs to run more/faster than you are able to keep up with in order to let off some steam, you could bring along multiple (2-3) tennis balls and as soon as he gets the first one, as he turns to return to you, throw the next one (so that he drops the first one). Then you can pick up the first ball while he gets the second. Repeating this won't really teach him to retrieve but it will keep him moving constantly and focused on one particular task (getting the ball). Again, this is really best done only in enclosed areas where he can't just run off with the first ball and where you can be assured of his safety and your ability to control the overall situation.

PS. I think THAT is the difference between the words "leader" and "alpha" - alpha is just a word that means "first" (alpha, omega, beta, blah blah blah it's all Greek to me!). A leader is the one who is able to calmly assess a situation and effectively execute decisions with the health, safety and overall good of the whole group foremost in mind. Just like Mom and Dad

Cheers - you guys are doing great. Keep trusting your instincts about what's best for your pack!

[bellasmum]

Hi McMegan, Wow, what a great reply, yes that all makes sense.You see Buddy comes up to my husband, then runs away as soon as he sees the sees the hand coming forward to the collar , knowing the next step is the leash.If we offer a treat its amazing how quickly thats taken and Buddy is gone again! For the moment we are walking him on the lead.When we get the biggest problem is open fields with streams, he just runs to water and is in and out, loves it.So obviously is having too great a time to leave it to come home! Another thing that maybe you can throw some light on, Buddy jumps up when crossing busy roads, even at pedestrian crossings, and also sometimes coming home.It would appear that he is frightened of cars. would that be the case.Although he also jumps up at me when my husband has him on the lead???? Really I am in awe of your detailed and kind reply, thanks again.

[McMegan]

Regarding your husband and putting the leash on Buddy, yup, I definitely think having your husband get closer to the ground (crouch or sit) and approach Buddy from the side rather than facing him head-on would help with Bud's skittishness about having the leash put on. Dogs are very sensitive about hands reaching directly towards them. Also make sure to have Buddy sitting calmly before starting to leash him so that he knows it is not game time. Instead of coaxing him to you with treats, wait to treat until he approaches you or your husband of his own accord. If he's not paying attention to you at all, try bouncing a small, soft treat (a bite of chicken or cheese, not a piece of hard kibble) off his flank so that he turns his attention like, "hey, where did that come from?!" Pretty soon he'll come over to investigate and you can give him another treat for approaching you.

I'm not sure quite what you mean by "jumping up" when crossing busy roads - can you describe it in a bit more detail? Does he pull forward on the leash and try to get to the cars, dancing on his back legs? Jump onto the person holding the leash? Leap backwards behind the person holding the leash (or to the side of them)? First, make sure that his leash is short enough that he doesn't have much room to pull ahead, but long enough that it can go slack as soon as he relaxes (you're making sure to keep your own shoulders, arm and hand grip completely relaxed, right?) Dogs pick up on our tension, so if you are nervous about busy streets, he may be sensing this and responding accordingly. If he seems nervous or afraid of the cars (backs away, pants more heavily, hides behind you, barks in a high-pitched tone while straining to chase and alternately hopping back), wait calmly until he settles a bit, then treat in a moment of silence. You'll have to work on the timing for that one - it could just be a split second where he stops barking to take a breath. You don't want to reinforce his nervousness and fear, but merely wait calmly through it. Reinforce any and all moments of calm and focus, no matter how quickly they go by. Remember to breathe, yourself. My husband and I do yoga and tai chi and I try to use the same breathing techniques to calm myself and Murray. It sounds crazy but it really works! I can get Murr to stop nosing me, lay down and go to sleep just by turning my head away and breathing deeply (though not, obviously, in the middle of a busy street)! You can also send Buddy some doggy calming signals (I love Turid Rugaas) by yawning, blinking and generally appearing as bored and unconcerned with the traffic as possible. Buddy will learn, "Ah, Mom and Dad aren't concerned about it, so I don't need to worry, either."

Another thing you could try: make sure to have him sit every time you stop moving, especially at all street crossings. At first you may need to use treats and even gentle pressure just above his hips to guide him into the position you want - go slowly and step-by-step into the verbal command and ultimately the automatic sit, where he plops down every time you stop and looks up for a treat. Make sure to give him a good one! Meanwhile, if he is jumping or excited, stop and wait until all four of his feet are firmly planted on the ground before treating or continuing the walk. Yup, this might make the walks quite a bit longer (or slower) at first but he will soon get the idea. Remember, he is still quite young and has a lot of puppy energy and excitement - after all, the world is a WONDERFUL place to explore! Just enjoy his happiness and enthusiasm and help him to learn focus, which will keep him safe and help him grow into a calm, mannerly adult!