How did you get into raw feeding your dog/s?

I see there are quite a few of us raw feeding our dogs on here :D just wondering what got you started?

For me, my last dog was such a dear little thing but she drove me bonkers with her eating, she would eat something one day and not the next - I went through every tin dog food there was and then the kibble, then I cooked meals for her, still she would eat one day and not for 2-3 days. I added this to her food and that to her food, worked for a little while then she would stop eating again. One day, in pure desparation I went into a pet shop and asked for advice - the shop girl said well you could try raw.....Tbh, I had no idea what she meant, anyway I came away with a bag full of raw meat packets and thought well what have I got to lose? For the first time in her life, she ate not just one meal but every meal...... so that was the start of it for me. I only wish someone had told me about it earlier, but never mind. Despite all my incompetence, my little Sherry [collie x terrier] lived until she was 17 and a half years.

For me it was just common sense. I started out with homecooked and grain free kibble, but that didn't cut it. Then I met Bill and his endless banter paid off. Now I help many people switch to raw from all over the world. I started my own website/blog dedicated to helping people switch (although, I've been busy the last six months or so with dog training and haven't had time to devote to the blog...). I switched just under three years ago....never going back

Here's my site:

Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats

I just stumbled onto some talk about raw feeding online about 10 years ago. It sounded interesting so I read a little about it and decided it was a cool idea. Then I didn't do anything for several months and stumbled on it again and decided to try it. I bought a book by Ian Billinghurst called Give Your Dog a Bone. Finally I bit the bullet and began feeding BARF style raw. Fortunately I met Tom Lonsdale a few months later and he convinced me I didn't need to feed veggies so I dropped them from the diet. I started feeding only meat, bones, and organs and have been feeding that way for 9 years now.

I guess I was so excited about feeding raw that I got online and I suppose I created endless banter about it. :) I have been posting online about raw feeding for 9 years.

That's amazing Bill, I followed Billingshurst [I remember going to the library and asking for books on feeding dogs and that book was the only one they had!] I was feeding BARF style with my last dog and these 3 up until about 6 months ago when I found the raw feeding sites and started reading about prey model on there. As you probably noticed on another thread, it's impossible for me to source whole prey, so I have to do it Frankenprey style - I won't give you a link I'm sure you know what I mean! Since BSE [mad cows disease] there are very strict laws in this country on what parts of the animal are allowed to be sold - all the interesting parts have to be destroyed - spleens, trachea, gullet - can't get any of these things. It seems to me that other countries are far more geered up for this style of feeding, I find it such a struggle and very costly.

I downloaded a few videos of mine eating raw..........YouTube - ‪Boxerdogmad It's mostly Ruby, I ask my butcher to grind the bones down for Roddy - watch and see how he eats sheep tongue, believe me, it's no fun trying to pull a chicken quarter out of his throat because he is chocking and gagging on it. He just doesn't understand he has to chew things a couple of times at least. I have no problem with him having ground-in, I know the purists will disagree, but I have to do what I consider best for my own dog.

Bill I would love to see some pictures of your dogs eating raw.............would that be possible sometime?

Natalie, your site looks amazing - I am so jealous of what you can get for your dogs.......... How great is it that your dogs can eat togther like that. I have never seen whole beef heart before, they are massive! I love your poopy pictures - LOL, LOL!

Frankenprey is no problem. It's what most of us feed, including myself. It doesn't bother me that I don't feed the whole animal. I never give it a thought until I read about it online. Tom Lonsdale goes to UK pretty often. Hopefully you will be able to meet him someday. The only organs I feed are liver and occasionally kidney. I don't really worry that the other ones are difficult to find. Of course I feed heart but techincally it isn't an organ nutrionwise.

Hehe, the video was cute. That thing would have lasted about 5 seconds with one of my dogs. I will have to try and figure out a way to take pictures/video's of my dogs eating. They eat so fast that by the time I finish feeding the cats, they have finished their meal and are begging for more. :) A chicken quarter will be gone in about 5 seconds. Two or three chomps then down the hatch. Yes, sometimes they bring it back for re-chew but I don't worry about that. They don't even bother to lay down with chicken quarters. Pork roasts take them a little longer and they will lay down sometimes when eating those. I'm going to get an I-phone next month. Maybe I can get some good movies and pictures then.

Of course I'm not there to watch but perhaps you worry a little too much about Roddy. Possibly you are panicking and pulling the quarter out when you don't need to. My dogs gag and cough some but it only takes them a brief few seconds to get things where they need to be. I just don't like ground food and would avoid it if at all possible.

Once I got to the point where I was helping other people switch to raw I found they were asking the same questions over and over. I figured it was easier to write it out once in great detail and forward that link to them instead of writing it all out over and over again. But I still find myself answering peoples questions in detail even though the PMR website spells it out how you should do things step by step. We get hits internationally all the time :)

For me, I had a little Pembroke Welsh Corgi that was terribly ill for about 8 months. No matter what I fed him he would have awful diarrhea, and vomiting on a daily basis. Lethargic, skinny, and all around miserable.
Grissom BEFORE raw feeding:
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1268720402

I went online, and came across a dog nutrition forum, and for a while, was on the search for the right kibble. After a while I realized.... there is no right kibble. It doesn't exist. I still had doubts about raw feeding, I was hesitant... but I made the leap. Not more than three days later, Grissom had perfect, solid stools (had not happened his entire life) and no vomiting (had been daily for 8 months)
Most importantly, he gained weight, and was a high energy Corgi once again. He's since been rehomed due to unfortunate circumstances, but he is the happiest little Corgi in the world.
Here's Grissom after about a month of raw feeding:
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1268720644

Does all this mean that chicken bones are safe for dogs to eat? I always heard that they splintered and were a hazard.

Raw chicken bones are great. My dogs eat them every day and have for 9 years. Cooked chicken bones are exactly what you heard.

I'm just getting started....so I may have a billion questions..... I found it at the feed store where I get my hay. I started with the no grain dry since dry was what he ate most of the time. With the can, (for meds) my own tummy did flip-flops, so I started to make his food myself, beef, chicken, lamb, and game meat when I can find it. livers, gizzards and hearts, and veggies...but no way ever green beans, he licks the good stuff off and spits out the bean. I think his tummy and mine is about ready to take that jump.

He's a small 12 pound Rat Terrier and the amount just seems so little, from what I was told. It comes in these pouches or rolls, already frozen. They are large rolls, more than he would eat before they go bad when thawed. HE thinks he's 10 foot tall and bullet proof, but these rolls are as big as he is. Ok, not really but....

Help?

YAY - that's great news that you are starting out, it's the best thing you can do for your dog/cat etc.. I don't bother buying anything that is pre-made, pre-frozen, pre-formed, pre-anything. I buy the meat that you and I would eat from the butchers and the supermarkets [ although I don't eat it personally - I am veggie :)] I did alot of research into pre-made raw products - as my boxer boy is stupid with bones and I am not happy giving them to him. I phoned several companies and really grilled them about what was in their products. This is what I discovered:

Most times the meat in them is what is left over and not used in the human food chain - sure it's fit for human consumption, may be even organic, but don't think you will be feeding your dog prime pieces of meat, because you sure won't. Also, most times the packs contain at best 50% carcasses, at worst, 70%. They are often classified as 100% raw meat and bones - they just don't specify the amounts - clever eh? From the discussions I have had with various companies, seems they also throw in whole chickens and meats that are bruised/off-colour and that wouldn't sell in the shops, as well as meats where paper work has gone missing. For instance, in the UK, beef products have to have paper work to show it is BSE free - sometimes there isn't any [read what you want into that!] this will then get sold on to be used raw food packs.

Many times too, raw food packs are padded out with fruit and veg and various supplements etc - none of which are necessary - have a read of this link - Frankenprey Rawfeeding

I feed my dogs a raw prey-model diet - you feed your dog through all the parts of an animal or as much of it as you can. Approx 80% of their diet is fresh prime meat, approx 10% is bone, 10% is organ of which 5% is be liver and 5% some other organ, eg, kidney. I ask my butcher to grind the bone-in parts down for Roddy because he is stupid with bones and doesn't understand the need to chew-chew-chomp-chomp on them a few times. Ruby gets hers as it comes. That's it - easy peasey. Anymore questions, please go ahead and ask.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stephanie

I ask my butcher to grind the bone-in parts down for Roddy because he is stupid with bones and doesn't understand the need to chew-chew-chomp-chomp on them a few times.

---

Dog don't chew like humans. Their whole digestive system is different from ours. We chew our food into a mush before we swallow it. Digestion for us begins in the mouth while we chew. Dog's on the other hand one crunch, rip, and tear their food until it's small enough to fit down their throats. They can fit amazingly large pieces down their throat. Digestion for a dog doesn't begin until the food gets to the stomach.

My dogs (2 Great Danes) will swallow a chicken quarter in one piece. Two or three crunches to break up the bones then swallow. It takes them about 20 or 30 seconds to eat a chicken quarter if that long. A chicken back is gone in about 5 seconds. These are not occasional times, they are every meal.

I know Bill what you are saying - I have read it all a thousand times before, but Roddy is the fourth dog I have fed raw, he is the only dog I have had that will try and swallow it all down WHOLE - if he did at least make some effort to chomp on it I would be happy but he DOESN'T. My other 3 dogs have all been slow eaters and it has always been a pleasure to watch them take their time and work on the meat and chew the bone more thoroughly, I simply cannot stomach seeing him trying to swallow and heave on chunks of meat and bone, he eats like he has never seen food before in his life. Bill, I am really not bothered about the arguments surrounding the benefits of dogs chewing on bones - teeth cleaning, muscle work out, potential excessive 'bacteria' on ground meats, etc, etc. I do what I believe is best for this particular dog. Blockages and obstructions, whilst rare, do happen as you know and I simply will not chance it with him - call me over-cautious I don't mind :) "Know thy dog" - my dog is stupid - end of. He will get ground-in until the day he dies. Thanks anyway, I do know you are only trying to help :)

That is wonderful news for me... I don't care for grounded meat(s), it has always upset my tummy forever, I think it must be the texture. I like the idea of seeing what I am buying for my dog. He's my truest friend, and I want him around for a longer time. I have alot of feral cats here (which I don't mind at all, natural mice and snake control) This year Buster started with massave stomache problems, I had to take him to the vet it was really bad. It would clear up and then start all over again. I'm outside 75% of the time, if not at work. I found him eatting leftover bird wings from the cats. Again the vet visit the next day, he was so sick. ( my tiny dought of raw food took hold). My vet is very honest, with owners involved and really helps out. He knows the diet I want for my dog and agrees.

The point is, He told me, "It's not the wing(s) making him sick, it's the bacteria from being old and in 110F heat. That really helped, doughts gone, back to raw food, but fresher for him. I'm thinking since he's a small breed (but 10 foot tall) a scoby snack for the wild dogs. He can do the fresh meats but not the come across something a week old dead.

But how much? I feed twice a day for meds, and he has his dry kibble (grain free) down all the time. That's his hunger pain, let me stop two seconds and eat a kibble before he runs off again snack.

What's a good start... then I can adjust from there. This really helps alot, he's about 12 pounds ( give or take an ounce or two :) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

That is wonderful news for me... I don't care for grounded meat(s), it has always upset my tummy forever, I think it must be the texture. I like the idea of seeing what I am buying for my dog. He's my truest friend, and I want him around for a longer time. I have alot of feral cats here (which I don't mind at all, natural mice and snake control) This year Buster started with massave stomache problems, I had to take him to the vet it was really bad. It would clear up and then start all over again. I'm outside 75% of the time, if not at work. I found him eatting leftover bird wings from the cats. Again the vet visit the next day, he was so sick. ( my tiny dought of raw food took hold). My vet is very honest, with owners involved and really helps out. He knows the diet I want for my dog and agrees.

---

OK, Syn. I THINK I know what your dog's problem is. As I understand it, you feed your dog 2 meals a day of raw meat, bones, & organs and you, at the same time, free feed kibble. If that is true, your problem is the feeding kibble. You see, kibble and raw real food digests at differing rates. Kibble digests at a much slower rate. Dogs are carnivores and as such, their digestive systems are designed to digest meat and pass it out of the body relatively fast. When kibble is in path, it slows that process down allowing bacteria to build up in the meat while its waiting to get to the anus and eliminated. Thats why the wings were able to develop so much bacteria. My dogs eat animals that have been dead for weeks with no problems. I have fed them meat that smelled so bad I had to use 3 cans of room deoderizer in the kitchen plus put a fan in the window to blow the smell out. They had no adverse reaction at all. I have seen them eat week old road kill without a problem. A couple of years ago, my Abby found a deer carcass that was completely rotten long before she found it. She still munched on it for a couple of weeks after that. No problem. THe point I'm trying to make is that when there is no slow moving kibble in the digestive tract, the food is digested and eliminated pretty quickly and bacteria is no problem. Most of the bacteria is killed in the stomach by very acidic stomach juices but what is left will multiply very rapidly if left in the intestines very long. I didn't mean to ramble that much but I hope my explanation was clear. :)

Quote:

---

The point is, He told me, "It's not the wing(s) making him sick, it's the bacteria from being old and in 110F heat. That really helped, doughts gone, back to raw food, but fresher for him. I'm thinking since he's a small breed (but 10 foot tall) a scoby snack for the wild dogs. He can do the fresh meats but not the come across something a week old dead.

---

The real problem is feeding kibble and real food at the same time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stephanie

Bill, I am really not bothered about the arguments surrounding the benefits of dogs chewing on bones - teeth cleaning, muscle work out, potential excessive 'bacteria' on ground meats, etc, etc.

---

You should be greately bothered. It will catch up eventually.

Quote:

---

I do what I believe is best for this particular dog.

---

Do more research and I think you will discover its not whats best for that particular dog. This dog is like every other dog and has the same needs as other dogs. What you need to do is feed animal parts that are too large for him to swallow without some chewing. For dental hygene, ground meat is worse than kibble. He just need to learn how to eat real food. As long as he's fed ground, he will never learn.

Quote:

---

Blockages and obstructions, whilst rare, do happen as you know and I simply will not chance it with him - call me over-cautious I don't mind :)

---

Hehe, yes, you are very over-cautious. I have been participating in discussion groups like this for 10 years. Probably 90% of those were raw feeding groups. I have read well over 100,000 posts by more than 10,000 different people who feed raw. I have heard of 2 cases of blockages caused by raw bones. By a very large majority, blockages are caused by balls, rags, socks, underwear, toys, sticks, etc. ALMOST NEVER are they caused by raw food. The dog's body is designed to handle raw meat, bones, and organs and do so very well.

I sincerely believe your dog is in a far greater danger of dying from heart, liver, or kidney problems caused by periodontal disease from eating ground meat only than he is from eating a prey model raw diet of meat, bones and organs.

Quote:

---

Thanks anyway, I do know you are only trying to help :)

---

Yep, thats a true statement :)

That makes alot of since about the kibble now. But What I have made for him has been cooked so far. The raw is what I am wanting to start soon so that's all the questions. No kibble with the raw, (no waste either, I have chickens :) ) Quick questions:

Should I mix the cooked and raw at first? Like when you change food over for other yuck dog food? Or cold turkey... Here's a chicken leg, enjoy.

For his size, about how much? A chicken leg amount, I need a sorta size amount to start with.

You are all the best!!! I thank you for talking with me. But... I do like it when my co-workers turn a little green when I talk about it with them :rolleyes:.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bill

You should be greately bothered. It will catch up eventually

---

No sorry Bill, I am not bothered, I have done copious amounts of research on this. I am not sure I understand entirely what you mean by it will "catch up eventually" - I assume from reading further on you are referring to the dental issues - I have answered that below.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bill

Do more research and I think you will discover its not whats best for that particular dog. This dog is like every other dog and has the same needs as other dogs. What you need to do is feed animal parts that are too large for him to swallow without some chewing. For dental hygene, ground meat is worse than kibble. He just need to learn how to eat real food. As long as he's fed ground, he will never learn.

---

Whoa, I simply cannot agree that ground is worse than kibble for dental hygiene! Ground does not contain any sugars or starches that is in every kibble going, even the best of the best. It is the starches and the sugars in kibble that collect around the dogs gum line and cause dental problems and ultimately disease. There is nothing in ground that can cause dental disease whatsoever. I accept that he will never learn to eat by being fed ground, but neither will he suffer from blockages from swallowing down whole bones because he doesn’t understand the need to crunch on them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bill

Hehe, yes, you are very over-cautious. I have been participating in discussion groups like this for 10 years. Probably 90% of those were raw feeding groups. I have read well over 100,000 posts by more than 10,000 different people who feed raw. I have heard of 2 cases of blockages caused by raw bones. By a very large majority, blockages are caused by balls, rags, socks, underwear, toys, sticks, etc. ALMOST NEVER are they caused by raw food. The dog's body is designed to handle raw meat, bones, and organs and do so very well.

---

I do acknowledge in my post that these are rare occurance and granted impactions can be caused by many things, the worst things are probably rawhides, but little gets mentioned about them! I totally agree that a dogs body is able to handle raw meat & bones, where the dog at least crunches the bone first of all – Roddy doesn’t.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bill

I sincerely believe your dog is in a far greater danger of dying from heart, liver, or kidney problems caused by periodontal disease from eating ground meat only than he is from eating a prey model raw diet of meat, bones and organs.

---

I have to disagree with you again. On top of a very balanced diet of ground bones, meat and organs, Roddy also gets a 2 and a half foot pizzle every couple of weeks to chew on. He also gets a raw ox tail every couple of weeks as well. He cannot swallow neither of these down as they are too big. The bone in the ox tail is too hard for him to break off and swallow down. These both provide his teeth with a great dental work out, far more than he would ever get trying to gorge down chicken backs, lamb ribs etc.........

Bill, I respect the fact that you feed your dogs the way you do. I think it is ultimately up to each owner having done their research to feed their dogs they way they consider best for them. I do not have a problem feeding bones to a dog that is "sensible" about them. Ruby gets boned in food, Jakey did too before all the allergies started up. I used to feed Sherry, my last dog a variety of bones, many of which were naked, as well knuckles and soup bones - I knew no better. Please can you accept that I am not a novice when it comes to this, I have been around this way of feeding for a long time and have read all the arguments time and time again. Whilst you may entirely disagree with me – that’s fine, we all just want what is best for our dogs at the end of the day which is why we fed raw in the first place. I know ground isn’t ideal and ofcourse I would love for him to eat the way Ruby does and for me not to have to worry myself about him, but the fact of the matter is, he doesn’t. Whether the way he eats is typical behaviour for a wolf or for your dog or everyone elses dog cuts no ice with me. I do what I consider best for my dog and I remain unbothered about arguments to the contrary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

Should I mix the cooked and raw at first? Like when you change food over for other yuck dog food? Or cold turkey... Here's a chicken leg, enjoy.

---

Here's a leg, enjoy. Check out my web page in my sig. It will answer a lot of your questions.

Quote:

---

For his size, about how much? A chicken leg amount, I need a sorta size amount to start with.

---

I think I would begin with legs. I feed my cats (about the size of your dog) 2 drumsticks a day, one in the morning and one in the evening.

Thanks Bill & Stephanie, great help, questions under control and I have a much better idea how to get started now.

I have just enough cooked left until shopping on payday, and I can start a new, MUCH better list for my Buster and the cats. I'm SOOO excited!

I hope they don't get any ideas now and go after my chickens :rolleyes:, :). My cats do look like mini mountain lions licking their lips sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syn

I have just enough cooked left until shopping on payday, and I can start a new, MUCH better list for my Buster and the cats. I'm SOOO excited!

---

Aww, it's so nice that you are so excited about it. I am on another forum where the majority of the posters are pretty disinterested in raw feeding and no one gets excited about anything I post on it, never mind. Let us know how you get on, you are bound to have more questions as you go along, so just ask away.