How did you get into raw feeding your dog/s?

I'm just getting started....so I may have a billion questions..... I found it at the feed store where I get my hay. I started with the no grain dry since dry was what he ate most of the time. With the can, (for meds) my own tummy did flip-flops, so I started to make his food myself, beef, chicken, lamb, and game meat when I can find it. livers, gizzards and hearts, and veggies...but no way ever green beans, he licks the good stuff off and spits out the bean. I think his tummy and mine is about ready to take that jump.

He's a small 12 pound Rat Terrier and the amount just seems so little, from what I was told. It comes in these pouches or rolls, already frozen. They are large rolls, more than he would eat before they go bad when thawed. HE thinks he's 10 foot tall and bullet proof, but these rolls are as big as he is. Ok, not really but....

Help?

YAY - that's great news that you are starting out, it's the best thing you can do for your dog/cat etc.. I don't bother buying anything that is pre-made, pre-frozen, pre-formed, pre-anything. I buy the meat that you and I would eat from the butchers and the supermarkets [ although I don't eat it personally - I am veggie :)] I did alot of research into pre-made raw products - as my boxer boy is stupid with bones and I am not happy giving them to him. I phoned several companies and really grilled them about what was in their products. This is what I discovered:

Most times the meat in them is what is left over and not used in the human food chain - sure it's fit for human consumption, may be even organic, but don't think you will be feeding your dog prime pieces of meat, because you sure won't. Also, most times the packs contain at best 50% carcasses, at worst, 70%. They are often classified as 100% raw meat and bones - they just don't specify the amounts - clever eh? From the discussions I have had with various companies, seems they also throw in whole chickens and meats that are bruised/off-colour and that wouldn't sell in the shops, as well as meats where paper work has gone missing. For instance, in the UK, beef products have to have paper work to show it is BSE free - sometimes there isn't any [read what you want into that!] this will then get sold on to be used raw food packs.

Many times too, raw food packs are padded out with fruit and veg and various supplements etc - none of which are necessary - have a read of this link - Frankenprey Rawfeeding

I feed my dogs a raw prey-model diet - you feed your dog through all the parts of an animal or as much of it as you can. Approx 80% of their diet is fresh prime meat, approx 10% is bone, 10% is organ of which 5% is be liver and 5% some other organ, eg, kidney. I ask my butcher to grind the bone-in parts down for Roddy because he is stupid with bones and doesn't understand the need to chew-chew-chomp-chomp on them a few times. Ruby gets hers as it comes. That's it - easy peasey. Anymore questions, please go ahead and ask.

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Originally Posted by Stephanie

I ask my butcher to grind the bone-in parts down for Roddy because he is stupid with bones and doesn't understand the need to chew-chew-chomp-chomp on them a few times.

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Dog don't chew like humans. Their whole digestive system is different from ours. We chew our food into a mush before we swallow it. Digestion for us begins in the mouth while we chew. Dog's on the other hand one crunch, rip, and tear their food until it's small enough to fit down their throats. They can fit amazingly large pieces down their throat. Digestion for a dog doesn't begin until the food gets to the stomach.

My dogs (2 Great Danes) will swallow a chicken quarter in one piece. Two or three crunches to break up the bones then swallow. It takes them about 20 or 30 seconds to eat a chicken quarter if that long. A chicken back is gone in about 5 seconds. These are not occasional times, they are every meal.

I know Bill what you are saying - I have read it all a thousand times before, but Roddy is the fourth dog I have fed raw, he is the only dog I have had that will try and swallow it all down WHOLE - if he did at least make some effort to chomp on it I would be happy but he DOESN'T. My other 3 dogs have all been slow eaters and it has always been a pleasure to watch them take their time and work on the meat and chew the bone more thoroughly, I simply cannot stomach seeing him trying to swallow and heave on chunks of meat and bone, he eats like he has never seen food before in his life. Bill, I am really not bothered about the arguments surrounding the benefits of dogs chewing on bones - teeth cleaning, muscle work out, potential excessive 'bacteria' on ground meats, etc, etc. I do what I believe is best for this particular dog. Blockages and obstructions, whilst rare, do happen as you know and I simply will not chance it with him - call me over-cautious I don't mind :) "Know thy dog" - my dog is stupid - end of. He will get ground-in until the day he dies. Thanks anyway, I do know you are only trying to help :)

That is wonderful news for me... I don't care for grounded meat(s), it has always upset my tummy forever, I think it must be the texture. I like the idea of seeing what I am buying for my dog. He's my truest friend, and I want him around for a longer time. I have alot of feral cats here (which I don't mind at all, natural mice and snake control) This year Buster started with massave stomache problems, I had to take him to the vet it was really bad. It would clear up and then start all over again. I'm outside 75% of the time, if not at work. I found him eatting leftover bird wings from the cats. Again the vet visit the next day, he was so sick. ( my tiny dought of raw food took hold). My vet is very honest, with owners involved and really helps out. He knows the diet I want for my dog and agrees.

The point is, He told me, "It's not the wing(s) making him sick, it's the bacteria from being old and in 110F heat. That really helped, doughts gone, back to raw food, but fresher for him. I'm thinking since he's a small breed (but 10 foot tall) a scoby snack for the wild dogs. He can do the fresh meats but not the come across something a week old dead.

But how much? I feed twice a day for meds, and he has his dry kibble (grain free) down all the time. That's his hunger pain, let me stop two seconds and eat a kibble before he runs off again snack.

What's a good start... then I can adjust from there. This really helps alot, he's about 12 pounds ( give or take an ounce or two :) )

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Originally Posted by Syn

That is wonderful news for me... I don't care for grounded meat(s), it has always upset my tummy forever, I think it must be the texture. I like the idea of seeing what I am buying for my dog. He's my truest friend, and I want him around for a longer time. I have alot of feral cats here (which I don't mind at all, natural mice and snake control) This year Buster started with massave stomache problems, I had to take him to the vet it was really bad. It would clear up and then start all over again. I'm outside 75% of the time, if not at work. I found him eatting leftover bird wings from the cats. Again the vet visit the next day, he was so sick. ( my tiny dought of raw food took hold). My vet is very honest, with owners involved and really helps out. He knows the diet I want for my dog and agrees.

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OK, Syn. I THINK I know what your dog's problem is. As I understand it, you feed your dog 2 meals a day of raw meat, bones, & organs and you, at the same time, free feed kibble. If that is true, your problem is the feeding kibble. You see, kibble and raw real food digests at differing rates. Kibble digests at a much slower rate. Dogs are carnivores and as such, their digestive systems are designed to digest meat and pass it out of the body relatively fast. When kibble is in path, it slows that process down allowing bacteria to build up in the meat while its waiting to get to the anus and eliminated. Thats why the wings were able to develop so much bacteria. My dogs eat animals that have been dead for weeks with no problems. I have fed them meat that smelled so bad I had to use 3 cans of room deoderizer in the kitchen plus put a fan in the window to blow the smell out. They had no adverse reaction at all. I have seen them eat week old road kill without a problem. A couple of years ago, my Abby found a deer carcass that was completely rotten long before she found it. She still munched on it for a couple of weeks after that. No problem. THe point I'm trying to make is that when there is no slow moving kibble in the digestive tract, the food is digested and eliminated pretty quickly and bacteria is no problem. Most of the bacteria is killed in the stomach by very acidic stomach juices but what is left will multiply very rapidly if left in the intestines very long. I didn't mean to ramble that much but I hope my explanation was clear. :)

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The point is, He told me, "It's not the wing(s) making him sick, it's the bacteria from being old and in 110F heat. That really helped, doughts gone, back to raw food, but fresher for him. I'm thinking since he's a small breed (but 10 foot tall) a scoby snack for the wild dogs. He can do the fresh meats but not the come across something a week old dead.

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The real problem is feeding kibble and real food at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Stephanie

Bill, I am really not bothered about the arguments surrounding the benefits of dogs chewing on bones - teeth cleaning, muscle work out, potential excessive 'bacteria' on ground meats, etc, etc.

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You should be greately bothered. It will catch up eventually.

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I do what I believe is best for this particular dog.

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Do more research and I think you will discover its not whats best for that particular dog. This dog is like every other dog and has the same needs as other dogs. What you need to do is feed animal parts that are too large for him to swallow without some chewing. For dental hygene, ground meat is worse than kibble. He just need to learn how to eat real food. As long as he's fed ground, he will never learn.

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Blockages and obstructions, whilst rare, do happen as you know and I simply will not chance it with him - call me over-cautious I don't mind :)

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Hehe, yes, you are very over-cautious. I have been participating in discussion groups like this for 10 years. Probably 90% of those were raw feeding groups. I have read well over 100,000 posts by more than 10,000 different people who feed raw. I have heard of 2 cases of blockages caused by raw bones. By a very large majority, blockages are caused by balls, rags, socks, underwear, toys, sticks, etc. ALMOST NEVER are they caused by raw food. The dog's body is designed to handle raw meat, bones, and organs and do so very well.

I sincerely believe your dog is in a far greater danger of dying from heart, liver, or kidney problems caused by periodontal disease from eating ground meat only than he is from eating a prey model raw diet of meat, bones and organs.

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Thanks anyway, I do know you are only trying to help :)

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Yep, thats a true statement :)

That makes alot of since about the kibble now. But What I have made for him has been cooked so far. The raw is what I am wanting to start soon so that's all the questions. No kibble with the raw, (no waste either, I have chickens :) ) Quick questions:

Should I mix the cooked and raw at first? Like when you change food over for other yuck dog food? Or cold turkey... Here's a chicken leg, enjoy.

For his size, about how much? A chicken leg amount, I need a sorta size amount to start with.

You are all the best!!! I thank you for talking with me. But... I do like it when my co-workers turn a little green when I talk about it with them :rolleyes:.

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Originally Posted by Bill

You should be greately bothered. It will catch up eventually

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No sorry Bill, I am not bothered, I have done copious amounts of research on this. I am not sure I understand entirely what you mean by it will "catch up eventually" - I assume from reading further on you are referring to the dental issues - I have answered that below.

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Originally Posted by Bill

Do more research and I think you will discover its not whats best for that particular dog. This dog is like every other dog and has the same needs as other dogs. What you need to do is feed animal parts that are too large for him to swallow without some chewing. For dental hygene, ground meat is worse than kibble. He just need to learn how to eat real food. As long as he's fed ground, he will never learn.

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Whoa, I simply cannot agree that ground is worse than kibble for dental hygiene! Ground does not contain any sugars or starches that is in every kibble going, even the best of the best. It is the starches and the sugars in kibble that collect around the dogs gum line and cause dental problems and ultimately disease. There is nothing in ground that can cause dental disease whatsoever. I accept that he will never learn to eat by being fed ground, but neither will he suffer from blockages from swallowing down whole bones because he doesn’t understand the need to crunch on them.

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Originally Posted by Bill

Hehe, yes, you are very over-cautious. I have been participating in discussion groups like this for 10 years. Probably 90% of those were raw feeding groups. I have read well over 100,000 posts by more than 10,000 different people who feed raw. I have heard of 2 cases of blockages caused by raw bones. By a very large majority, blockages are caused by balls, rags, socks, underwear, toys, sticks, etc. ALMOST NEVER are they caused by raw food. The dog's body is designed to handle raw meat, bones, and organs and do so very well.

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I do acknowledge in my post that these are rare occurance and granted impactions can be caused by many things, the worst things are probably rawhides, but little gets mentioned about them! I totally agree that a dogs body is able to handle raw meat & bones, where the dog at least crunches the bone first of all – Roddy doesn’t.

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Originally Posted by Bill

I sincerely believe your dog is in a far greater danger of dying from heart, liver, or kidney problems caused by periodontal disease from eating ground meat only than he is from eating a prey model raw diet of meat, bones and organs.

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I have to disagree with you again. On top of a very balanced diet of ground bones, meat and organs, Roddy also gets a 2 and a half foot pizzle every couple of weeks to chew on. He also gets a raw ox tail every couple of weeks as well. He cannot swallow neither of these down as they are too big. The bone in the ox tail is too hard for him to break off and swallow down. These both provide his teeth with a great dental work out, far more than he would ever get trying to gorge down chicken backs, lamb ribs etc.........

Bill, I respect the fact that you feed your dogs the way you do. I think it is ultimately up to each owner having done their research to feed their dogs they way they consider best for them. I do not have a problem feeding bones to a dog that is "sensible" about them. Ruby gets boned in food, Jakey did too before all the allergies started up. I used to feed Sherry, my last dog a variety of bones, many of which were naked, as well knuckles and soup bones - I knew no better. Please can you accept that I am not a novice when it comes to this, I have been around this way of feeding for a long time and have read all the arguments time and time again. Whilst you may entirely disagree with me – that’s fine, we all just want what is best for our dogs at the end of the day which is why we fed raw in the first place. I know ground isn’t ideal and ofcourse I would love for him to eat the way Ruby does and for me not to have to worry myself about him, but the fact of the matter is, he doesn’t. Whether the way he eats is typical behaviour for a wolf or for your dog or everyone elses dog cuts no ice with me. I do what I consider best for my dog and I remain unbothered about arguments to the contrary.

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Originally Posted by Syn

Should I mix the cooked and raw at first? Like when you change food over for other yuck dog food? Or cold turkey... Here's a chicken leg, enjoy.

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Here's a leg, enjoy. Check out my web page in my sig. It will answer a lot of your questions.

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For his size, about how much? A chicken leg amount, I need a sorta size amount to start with.

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I think I would begin with legs. I feed my cats (about the size of your dog) 2 drumsticks a day, one in the morning and one in the evening.